Not sure why an ultrasound of a baby is offensive. Can the Jaycees explain that? Every time I see one I think it's amazing and beautiful.

I likewise see nothing offensive about an ultrasound of a living baby and see no reason to elminate that picture. What could the Jaycees possibly have found to offensive in that picture or the banner which I believe has been used in prior year, Scott, you never said.

Furthermore, I am disgusted in any type of censorship, even if you are prochoice, you don't have a right to silence others. If that is what it comes down to, the Jaycees should deny entrance to any group that anyone in Palatine may find offensive, which they are not. You cannot discriminate.

Keep it up, Jack, you proove our point. My husband, children, and I are getting a loud laugh from your postings. Prayers are now being offered up for you and your hatred. Hopefully, you can start the healing process for whatever happened to you as a child/young adult. This is my last post as I am off to enjoy the rest of my night with my family. Peace out!

Jack/Dave, anti Catholic feelings showing through? Hate much? It's funny how people like you can't make a point without stooping to name calling. Do you "guys" even live in Palatine? Doubt it. Go back to your miserable self centered secular lives and pretend like your opinions matter. Because in the end your hateful, mis-informed rants won't do a thing to change the opinions of those who are clearly more intelligent, and more loved, than you.

Wow I love when the pro-lifers come out for a discussion...I'm Catholic myself and find that Pro-Lifers an odd bunch. I believe that though it may be a sin in God's eyes, it IS legal to have an abortion in the USA. If you don't like it don't have one. The people that choose to do so have to live it with and I doubt they just come upon it one day of jeez what should I do today? oh yeah get that abortion! I never hear pro-lifers sticking up for all the people on Death Row....why is that? Because they prefer to pick and choose from the Bible what they want. If I followed everything that the Bible stated and took it for literal truth, I could stone my wife today w/ no repercussions. I prefer the more Christian way of loving my fellow brothers and sisters....and turning the other cheek.

Why are they using a fetus developed way past the point at which abortion is actually legal without extraordinary circumstances to illustrate 'conception' ? I mean, aside from the fact that this particular image looks like a scary alien from a horror movie, wouldn't it be more accurate to use an image of a blastocyst? Or a pharyngula?

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/imagepages/9578.htm

This issue has nothing to do with the message or the beliefs of the organizations involved. It has to do with an image that some people might find offensive in a family oriented parade.

The assertion that the banner was sanctioned in last year's parade is patently false. I was there and the group was informed that they could not have a picture of a fetus on the banner (well before the parade). They waited until the parade organizer passed by there contingent and confirmed they were complying, then they unrolled the banner. By the time it came to the attention of the parade organizers, they were too far away and the parade was under way.

Let me be clear: The banner was NOT approved last year. The group surreptitiously brought it to the parade and displayed it after the parade organizers had passed them by.

I recall meeting a woman many years ago (30 or so) back when we were more responsible and concerned about human life, who had been a British nurse. I asked her why she had come to live in the United States. She said she could not stomach aborting live babies and watching them squirm and die after they were removed from the womb. So she came here.

Hopefully she is no longer around...or working at a grocery store or something. We've come a long way haven't we???

I find it very interesting that folks are saying the decision to deny this group was "anti-catholic." It is interesting because the Jaycees allow the Knights of Columbus, multiple churches, a variety of politicians, and children athletes from a multitude of sports (how dare they allow those football players!). The knights of Columbus have been part of the parade for many years and we have never had an issue with their group or their beliefs. Jeffrey is correct that there is misleading information about the approval of last year's banner. More research would have been helpful (i.e contacting the parade chairs of 2010).

I am also completely disgusted with any group purporting to "respect life" and denouncing the entrance of the PFLAG group. This group is all about tolerance and respect for others.

Excellent Points M!! The Respect Life Group is excellent at twisting the story and spreading falsities about the Jaycees. The 2010 Chairs had much difficulty with this group last year, as they used Palatine Township Clerk, Lisa Moran as their voice. From what I understand, she used her position as an opportunity to intimidate the 2010 Parade and Fest Chairs. The Respect Life Group was not refused admission to the parade, but were simply told that the banner could not be accepted. The same banner that the 2010 Chairs had requested NOT be carried in the 2010 parade. Additionally, what Kelley had failed to inform everyone, is that the President of the Palatine Jaycees did not, nor cannot, make any decisions regarding entries into the parade. Those decisions are made by the Parade and the Overall Fest Chairs. Maybe Kelley’s true goal is to slander the name of an outstanding President of an community organization.

First question for everyone opposed to banning this group, have you ever volunteered to help the Jaycees with the Parade? If not perhaps you should, then you would see the amazing level of criticism they endure to bring the Parade to you. I know I was involved with the Wheaton Jaycees Parade for over 10 years. If they were asked to leave the banner out, then that is what this group does or they do not march. Groups tend to forget the reason for this day is to celebrate the 4th of July as a country not to make a personal or political statement, and anything that does will not be allowed. We had PFLAG in our parade as well and when we asked them not to carry certain things they obliged, other groups did the same. I could tell you some funny and not so funny stories about abuse we all took from groups on different sides of every issue there is. My advice is dump the banner, march in the parade, and celebrate the fact we are all Americans.

What makes the ‘Pro-Lifers’ an odd lot? Is it because they believe life is sacred. You allude to being Christian. If you are a Christian (whether Catholic or Protestant), and even if you’re not, I would think that the words of our founding fathers would mean something to you (”..all men … are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”). The fundamental right of ‘life’ is a prerequisite for all those other ‘rights’ that follow. Without life, all the others are moot.
We, as citizens have the right to free speech, expression of our beliefs. We, as a nation, are made up of Pro-Choice advocates, Pro-Life advocates, pro Gay Rights, anti Gay Rights, anti-war, anti-Death penalty, Animal rights, etc, etc. The list goes on. We, as a nation, are provided with the right (and duty) to participate in the law making process. That includes expressing our beliefs, trying to inform, discuss, and persuade the other citizens of the various issues which affect us as a nation.

Pete - thanks for the compliment! I am glad you finally brought up some issues from last year that have not been publicized (i.e. township officials using their position to jockey for better treatment).

Veteran - EXCELLENT post!!!! As a fellow parade volunteer, I know exactly what you are talking about and I completely agree.

John - who are you responding to? It's a little vague. I fully agree with your second paragraph. We tried to uphold the exact things you express, but received nothing but grief, harrassment, and headaches from this group last year! I am all about free expression, but when you bully VOLUNTEERS, you should not be welcome.

Americans have high-tech infactuation. Just look at our cameras, cellphones, computers, HD TV's and 3 d movies, etc... and of course this technology extends into the medical field. Laser eye surgery is high tech and the procedure (now over 10 years old) is not for the squeamish. In shopping malls, passersby can watch the surgeries -- intended to correct nearsightedness and farsightedness -- live on a television screen. Families who casually stroll can view the cornea sliced and peeled back, exposing the area beneath... and then zapped with a laser! Doesn't this make those offended by the Respect Life banner displaying a 3 d photo image of a preborn human baby look a bit silly? Is there something about this banner and image that makes it so offensive? And if so, would a different image of a preborn baby be more acceptable? Life is precious in all stages from defenseless pre-born human life until it's natural death--and this is the point of the banner. I suspect some viewers may need more than eye surgery to understand this.

Pro choice!!!I don't want anymore of these single moms taking my tax money. Palatine should know-section 8 on rand road, food stamp card, and free insurance and on welfare! PRO CHOICE!!!

@ Regular Joe and CGS - Who are the both of you to declare Dan to not be a Catholic? If you so strongly, "...stand up for the Doctrine of the Church...", you most certainly believe in the most fundamental teachings of God, including to admishment to "not judge others, lest you be judged". You say, "...The Church says abortion is wrong because it is murder...", yet Doctrine forbids the use of birth control thus leading to thousands and thousands of unwanted pregnancies. I'd say that the Church needs to find a middle ground somewhere, realize that it's 2011 and adjust some of the ways that it thinks. Possibly then the number of "fallen Catholics" (such as myself) would decrease...

MomO2, so to appease you the Church should say abortion is OK? I see, because you and some other "fallen Catholics", who find it's teachings and core tenets a little too tough for your liking, prefer a faith that is more "middle ground" and easier to follow. What other rules should they relax to get you back? pre-marital sex? extra-marital sex? The Catholic faith, and for that matter all faiths, do not have menu's that you can pick and choose what rules you would like to follow.

I recommend that anyone in town who is pro-life hold up a sign with the "offensive" picture of an unborn baby, with the words "Respect Life" underneath, and stand on the sidelines.

I suggest that the fact that opponents can't bear the thought of anyone affirming that life is a gift that should not be refused, etc., but instead must have agreement with their views or the suppression of pro-life views, points to a guilty conscience. (And, I submit, the level of anger at what I have just said will confirm my view.)

Let's stick to the FACTS folks. The banner used in last year’s parade WAS approved ahead of time and the group has the email correspondence to prove that if anyone is interested in seeing it. I saw them at the start of the parade and observed that the Jaycees saw the banner ahead of time. While a FEW of them objected it was pointed out to them that approval had previously been granted and the group had the email correspondence with them as evidence. The emailed photos were CLEAR and not fuzzy as the Jaycees now claim. The Jaycees President had been president of a pro-abortion group at the University of IL and stated in a book written by Ben Shapiro that she would not give pro-lifers a forum for their "extremist" views. Clearly there is an agenda. I observed the marchers in the parade as I was a member of another group walking nearby and can state for a fact that all along the route they were cheered, received standing ovations and positive responses. There was one point though at which a group of pro-abortion adults became irate and started screaming in front of the children. This scene was one-sided as the pro-lifers did not respond in kind.

Jules - please post the email including the sender info.

Just because I don't blindly follow every doctrine of the church doesn't mean I'm not a Catholic. I went to Catholic grammar school...was an altar boy for 5 years. I'm as Catholic as the next guy. But I don't agree with the church on the right to life issue. Let me qualify that....I believe abortion is wrong and I wouldn't encourage my partner to have one. But I also realize that it is a right in this country and I don't believe pro-life orgs should try to introduce legislation to outlaw the practice. Do we really want to go back to the days of hack "doctors" performing back alley procedures with a coat hanger? I'm a Knight...and we've got a couple guys in our council who are rabidly anti-abortion. Notice I don't say pro-life...because they're not...they're anti-abortion. I never hear or see these guys offering to take the unwanted children of a pregnant teenager. And, in this case, their hypocrasy is exposed. Why would a good Catholic object to including the parents & friends of gays in the parade? Because most Catholics hate gays. The parents and friends of gays may not be gay themselves. Why ostracize them? Final point...would it have been a bad thing if Hitler's mother had an abortion?

Jules, let's stick with the FACTS then. The banner that was approved was NOT the banner that was carried in the Palatine Parade. The banner that was approved said Arlington Heights Catholics Respect Life and the one that was carried in Palatine said Palatine Area Catholics Respect Life. The picture that was submitted was NOT the picture that was used on the Palatine. That is a FACT. The Respect Life group keeps saying that the Palatine Jaycees are bad people but what has the Respect Life group done for the Palatine Community?? I know for a FACT that the Jaycees have given tens of thousands of dollars to Palatine community organizations. One of the organizations that we have given to is the Palatine Township where Lisa Moran is the elected Town Clerk and is the co-founder of the Respect Life group. The Palatine Township actually collects can goods before the parade starts. I think the Palatine Jaycees should not give anymore donations to the Township. How does she and her co-workers feel about that? We are such bad people according to this group why would they want our volunteer, hard earned donations? The Parade and Festival theme is “Hometown Fest”. The Jaycees want to promote the hometown feel of Palatine, reflecting on what makes it a great place to live. How does their group make Palatine a great place to live? If you want to have a parade about Pro Life then have had it, obtain a permit like the Jaycees did and march. Don't hide behind the Jaycees!!

Well said, PalRes!!!

I think you can also remind the reading public about the three annual scholarship winners, the holiday shopping spree which we donated $10,000 to needy families, as well as our community donations program which consistenly gives funds to individuals and organizations in Palatine (including PHD).

Oh wait, we also put on a huge annual festival in which thousands of people attend. The fireworks, entertainment, carnivals, and other events are all provided by Jaycee time and resources.

I still don't see how a picture of a living, unborn baby is offensive??

The solution is for this group to spend their own money and manpower to hold their own parade.

The Jaycees selflessly do a great deal for the Palatine community and a single radical group is trying to make them look like villains. That is what is wrong.

The only issue to discuss is the banner not the message and the group is completely refusing to even work with the Jaycees.

You have absolutely no idea how much work goes into putting on the festival and parade.

Black eye? You are ignorant.

Joe, how do the Jaycees have a black eye over this? Your comment makes no sense fyi.

Jeffrey, I completely agree. :)

People such as PalRes, a supporter (member) of the Jaycees are advocating withholding donations to the Township as punishment for ..........something (I am not even sure what the township has to do with this). The Township, if I am correct, helps out needy people in the community. You, a member of the JAycees, are in full support of that. Help me understand how that makes the Jaycees look good, please.

M, Lisa Moran has used her election position in the Palatine Township to strong arm the Palatine Jaycees. Has Palatine Township reached out to the Jaycees to indicate they do not condone nor approve of the use of Lisa Moran's Board Position Title in conjunction with the parade entry? I have not been able to locate an official statement from the Township, nor Linda Fleming. It would seem that the Township, and organization that has accepted numerous donations from the Palatine Jaycees, would at least acknowledge that their board is not associated with this complaint against the Jaycees. Silence speaks volumes. Seems that the Township lacks respect or gratitude for the Jaycees.

It has been said that while contacting the Jaycees regarding the parade entries, Lisa Moran presented herself as the Clerk for the Township, and not as a Respect Life representative. If I was a Township Board member, this would concern me, as she is representing them.

That's good, the "it has been said" evidence. I would like to hear from Mr. "It has been said"

And even if this did occur, how exactly does that constitute "bullying and strong arming".

PalRes, you are correct, they used a completly different banner than approved. I agree with the Jaycees. You don't want to follow thier rules, then you are out. It was my understanding they were even investigating criminal Disturbing the Peace charges against the group because people watching the parade found the sign offensive. Also, understand that Lisa Moran is only the Clerk at the township and does not represent the dedicated and hard working respecful people employed there. The township has nothing to do with this group and it will stay that way. It is very unfortunate she has brought negativity to the Township with this issue.
To J: Lisa Moran was elected by the people of Palatine Township and the board has no authority to change that. It is up to the voters in 2013.

All this back and forth pro-life, pro-choice, pro-abortion, name calling is proof in and of itself that this entire issue doesn't belong in the July 4th parade.

Casey,

Freedom of religion also includes freedom from religion.

But go ahead and pout if it makes you feel better. You are free to do that as well in this great country.

Ellen said:" Don't know where your nurse friend was that she was watching squirming babies but in the USA, last I knew it was a vacuuming procedure and I don't know of anyone who was ever expected to look at this waste material."

This statement is a perfect example of the ignorance of pro-aborts when spout off without knowing even the basic facts about abortion. There are half a dozen different ways of aborting babies, with suction being only one type. Obviously if abortion is legal all nine months, which it is, you can't suction an 8 1/2 month fetus. I would suggest that anyone like this uninformed poster who really wants to educate themselves on the issue, view "Meet the Abortion Providers"- former abortionists who will explain in detail all of the options legally available for disposing of a living pre-born human baby as if it were trash. Priests for Life also have educational material available. They are but two of many websites with FACTUAL information and photos for anyone who has the courage to face the reality of this issue. I know former abortion staff members personally, and YES, clinic staff IS required to examine the remains of the suction procedure to make sure that all of the arms, legs, ribs etc are accounted for, to prevent infection from retained fetal parts in the woman. In a miscarriage sometimes the baby wasn't completely formed as apparently in your case. Educate yourself please so you don’t look ridiculous making absurd statements.

I just want to say thank you to the Jaycees for all you do for the community- I am very thankful for all of your time and efforts!